Madness Vs The Specials

[simon]

I've pondered this issue for ages and I've not been sure how to ask the forum to evoke a response from the Madness faithful.

I was a 2 tone kid, I have everything that those bands have to offer. I have followed all of them avidly but always loved our boys the most for reasons stated elsewhere on the forum.

But why is it that The Specials seem to evoke more respect from the music industry at large than Madness?

It is now really beginning to get to me, especially when Vive Le Rock music magazine asked the question of their Facebook friends Madness Vs The Specials and we were comfortably beaten.

Whilst Madness has a huge number of Facebook "friends", more than The Specials by a country mile are many of them simply nostalgic, casual and these days somewhat indifferent?

I'd love Madness to get a Brit Award but my view is beginning to round on the fact that if anyone from that era it will be The Specials that get the recognition.

For their ability to play utterly incomparable ska I applaud and respect The Specials and have eagerly bought everything they have ever done.

For me Madness are peerless but wondered what you all think about the comparison and seemingly superior view and attitude of Specials fans.

[graham]

Personally I've never compared them as their styles of music are actually very different....wheras The Specials took the ska sound and added a punk tinge (as did the likes of The Beat and The Selecter), Madness took ska influences and added something more akin to what Ian Dury and the likes of the pub rock crowd were doing around that time - I can't think of one Madness song that I would say is punk influenced as such.

Anyway that's just my personal view - to look at the wider picture of why the differing recognition between the two bands - sadly I think it comes back to that long held notion amongst the music press and elsewhere (including casual observers/fans) that Madness are a good time band and "those 7 nutty boys who make the funny videos" - and as such are seen in quite a nostalgic way (how many times have you mentioned the band to work colleague or the like to be greeted with "oh I used to dance to them back then - Baggy Trousers always got us going, are they still going then?" or words to that effect.

Whereas The Specials are always seen as the more serious band with the more serious image and reputation - mention them to most casual observers and I bet one of the first things they'll mention is Ghost Town and it's timing with the '81 riots - or how they were the group that bought black kids and white kids together kind of thing.

And being more serious sadly seems to enhance the reputation and recognition (with or without their erstwhile figurehead and driving force).

Now obviously a lot of that has changed for Madness over the course of the last 3 years or so - with the critical acclaim that Folgate got etc and their newly elevated position of national treasures thanks to the Olympics and Jubilee performances BUT (and there will always be that but) they are still seen as those jolly japesters who when someone is needed to go on the Palace roof to roll out an ironic "Our House" can be relied on to deliver the goods.

To a certain extent I guess they're a victim of their own success at playing the fools - and the success of being able to write such wonderful pathos dressed up in brassy sax breaks and tinkly feelgood piano, so that you wouldn't recognise the seriousness of some of the messages.

Now everyone gathered here today knows that there is so much more to Madness than meets the eye - trouble is the wider public certainly don't see that necessarily (and perhaps don't want to see it) and some sections of the media have only recently begun to see it.

Does it matter that they've never been recognised? Not to me it doesn't, the most important recognition they can get is from the likes of this forums dwellers - and I think that's the way the band tend to look at it too.

Will The Specials ever get a Brit? Well they did once back in the day didn't they? Or was that Two Tone as a whole? Either way I'm not sure they will while they're still basically working off of a catalogue of two albums at live shows - but who knows. If they do I'll be one of the first to applaud them as they are as much a part of my musical fabric as Madness are - Madness have just donated more to it in terms of output.

And that is a ramble and a half that probably doesn't even make sense - but I've typed it as I've gone along and am not one to go back and edit and hone things once I've typed it - so for that I apologise.

[simon]

Do you think that by releasing a more lightweight album than Liberty they have pissed on their chips, another fan on Facebook thinks the new album is only average and sorely missed Langer and Winstanley production. I loved it!!

[graham]

That occurred to me as I typed my last post - but I don't necessarily think so - most of the reviews of Oui Oui have been positive and contained such phrases as "how do you follow a critically acclaimed album such as Folgate? By going back to what you do best, writing classic three minute pop songs full of pathos and humour" or words to that effect.

The band themselves have said they were aiming for more of a "pop" album this time round and I think they've achieved that. It's not as good as Folgate IMHO but it's still a collection of very good songs as I've said elsewhere, and I don't think they could have topped Folgate if they'd tried to anyway.

But I certainly don't think they've done themselves any harm by releasing it either - at the end of the day they have a fairly solid core fan base who will pack venues whenever they play - which financially is where they stand to profit these days, and as I said (and they've said themselves) does it really matter whether they have a piece of silverware to stick on the mantelpiece? Personally I think not, they'll always be my favourite band and that is what matters to me.

[deco]

I have to say, very well put by graham
I did love the whole 2 tone scene and for me personally i enjoyed the lighter side of it with madness
For me living in dublin i unfortunately didnt grow up in a multicultural society and didnt see riots over here but there was huge unemployment and i think that people took something from what each of the 2 tone bands had to offer be it their politics or whatever
Will madness get a brit, probably not and i dont give a flying monkeys.
Based on what the brit awards are all about today, they probably dont care either although the so called music journalists seem to paint a picture of sour grapes with the band as of late
I believe they are entitled to one alright and for me to say that would be more pleased to just see more of them in the printed media, to me the words national treasures and british institution are faceless terms that seem to be only said but not actioned in any great way.
I am passionate about madness and will defend them whatever they do, i have never felt hard done by the direction they took musically, but i can probably dance more in time with misery now than baggy trousers in my 45th year,
Thankfully i believe its been the fans that have kept the good ship madness afloat and not the music industry who certainly dont understand what the band is about, but thats not important its all us fans here on the board, the people who brought us madness central, MIS Online, and the fantastic french MIS amongst many many others who keep us all up to tabs on what the band are up to, and where else would you see fans questions answered by band members
Anytime i read anything now in the media about them, the journos obviously copy and paste the first paragrah from wikipdedia, the same drivel all the time Ska based / camden / nutty boys,
I am not a ska fanatic, although i love ska but really only the revival of 79 and some of the originators of it
Im after varying from what i came here to write and the question asked so i will get to the point i was trying to make.
The music industry is still on a buzz from the specials reunion which is now heading to 5 years, but i remember back in 92 they were praising madness when they returned to the stage, but madness did have a bigger back catalogue to choose from in terms of playing live, unfortunately for the band and for us they did end up on the old status quo syndrome as suggs once put it and it was to be seven years for them to put out new material which was hugely brave on their behalf but when wonderful arrived it was just like they had never been away, As fantastic as the specials are i think they will be more nervous releasing new material that will fit in with where they left off, and i hope they do but lets watch how the music industry loose their interest in them if it doesnt stand up to their orininal output.
Sorry for the rambling on, LONG LIVE MADNESS AND ALL WHO SAIL IN HER

[Andyc65]

Nov 17, 2012 19:39:23 GMT deco said:

I have to say, very well put by graham
I did love the whole 2 tone scene and for me personally i enjoyed the lighter side of it with madness
For me living in dublin i unfortunately didnt grow up in a multicultural society and didnt see riots over here but there was huge unemployment and i think that people took something from what each of the 2 tone bands had to offer be it their politics or whatever
Will madness get a brit, probably not and i dont give a flying monkeys.
Based on what the brit awards are all about today, they probably dont care either although the so called music journalists seem to paint a picture of sour grapes with the band as of late
I believe they are entitled to one alright and for me to say that would be more pleased to just see more of them in the printed media, to me the words national treasures and british institution are faceless terms that seem to be only said but not actioned in any great way.
I am passionate about madness and will defend them whatever they do, i have never felt hard done by the direction they took musically, but i can probably dance more in time with misery now than baggy trousers in my 45th year,
Thankfully i believe its been the fans that have kept the good ship madness afloat and not the music industry who certainly dont understand what the band is about, but thats not important its all us fans here on the board, the people who brought us madness central, MIS Online, and the fantastic french MIS amongst many many others who keep us all up to tabs on what the band are up to, and where else would you see fans questions answered by band members
Anytime i read anything now in the media about them, the journos obviously copy and paste the first paragrah from wikipdedia, the same drivel all the time Ska based / camden / nutty boys,
I am not a ska fanatic, although i love ska but really only the revival of 79 and some of the originators of it
Im after varying from what i came here to write and the question asked so i will get to the point i was trying to make.
The music industry is still on a buzz from the specials reunion which is now heading to 5 years, but i remember back in 92 they were praising madness when they returned to the stage, but madness did have a bigger back catalogue to choose from in terms of playing live, unfortunately for the band and for us they did end up on the old status quo syndrome as suggs once put it and it was to be seven years for them to put out new material which was hugely brave on their behalf but when wonderful arrived it was just like they had never been away, As fantastic as the specials are i think they will be more nervous releasing new material that will fit in with where they left off, and i hope they do but lets watch how the music industry loose their interest in them if it doesnt stand up to their orininal output.
Sorry for the rambling on, LONG LIVE MADNESS AND ALL WHO SAIL IN HER

WELL SAID MY GOOD FRIEND

[simon]

Personally, I love without hesitation the attraction of Madness.

It is multi-faceted and unique. They transcend style, cataloging, pigeon holing or restricting by trend.

How can a band last 30 odd years without something unbelievably extraordinary.

I am thankful they are still on the beat. Not only that after three lukewarm albums I can't get enough of this one, thank The Lord, it's awesome. Why? Try not dancing to this one, when they ask you to listen and reflect revel in Leon, epic.

[nico]

Hi everyone,

We have the same thing here in France : hipsters loooove The Specials and consider that Madness are just a bunch of old guys doing the Nutty Train.

IMHO, you can't compare (and believe me, I really love The Specials) a band with only 2 records, as magnificent as they are, and a band with so many great LPs, including very recent ones, with great new material.

Madness are lacking the Specials' political side, even if we know, as fans, that they often talk about politics, even if it's perhaps more subtle. It's hype to say you listen to The Specials, not that you listen to Madness (someone once told me that it's Circus music...). Madness are clowns, The Specials are serious dudes.

On a more personal side, I am proud to like a band where its seven (7!) members came back together, with real friendship, without hate. Even if Bedders isn't here anymore, there is no hate, 30+ years after.
Franckly, The Specials without Jerry Dammers aren't The Specials, they are a great tribute band. I don't expect anything from their new material, if there is one, one day.

But one of the hippest, even very posh, magazine, Les Inrockuptibles, made a great paper last week, telling the Madness story, making clear that Madness is not as shallow as everybody thinks and with a excellent review of OOSSJJDD.
They even have an interview on their site (in french) :
www.lesinrocks.com/2012/11/28/musique/madness-entretien-fleuve-11326090/

As a conclusion, we should continue to listen this wonderful band, and leave the ignorants in their lazy prejudice.
They don't know what they are missing !

Nico

[tone1976]

This is a great topic I`ll be honest, whilst I love a lot of the Specials tracks apart from Ghost town and A Message to you Rudy and too much too young they dont get much airplay on radio as what madness do.

Saying that radio stations tend to play the same quartet of songs of IMBL, Baggy trousers, Embarrassment and House of fun with the exception of one or two others.
Some of the more recent stuff gets played when its released and then thats it.

I agree with points raised about the differing styles so comparisons are hard to make despite being apart of 2 tone.

[vespacol]

No contest MADNESS win 10 - 2 :-)

[half2tone]

I think they complimented each other back in the day. They are so different yet hewn from the same ska rock as Beat/Selecter/Bad manners.

What Madness managed to succeed in doing was keeping it alive with further hits and output, while the others split or faded even before this latter rejuvenation. Also, because of their writing pool the songs are constantly evolving and varied. For this I am forever grateful. I've bought most of their singles, all the albums and been to the gigs and long may they continue.

The SPECIALS though will always be my first love. I know it's only 2 albums, but what albums and what an energetic live show.

I do hope new material is written but only if it is worthy of the bands name. Something that might be beyond them without JD. Madness on the other hand have achieved this feat.

Because The Specials split while at number 1 at the top of their game coming as a real shock gives them extra kudos amongst many.

I'm still waiting for the 2 tone tour to roll back into town

[vespacol]

Dec 7, 2012 14:00:53 GMT half2tone said:

I think they complimented each other back in the day. They are so different yet hewn from the same ska rock as Beat/Selecter/Bad

The SPECIALS though will always be my first love. I know it's only 2 albums, but what albums and what an energetic live show.

Madness were my first Love and it was 4 life ! the Specials all fell out thats why they split , as Suggs said during a gig , if Jerry tells me one more time what the F@@@g Specials should have done


I like The Specials there in 'the family' but to me there a distant relative you dont see very often but when you do there playing the same record again

Energetic show ? Ive seen them live once a couple of yrs ago , dont feel no urge to go again as nothing new to see of hear , it was on my list of must see at least once
Yeah there guitarist jump about more than ours Its only because Terry Hall just stands there or stares at the drums all gig that the others need to dance about ,a brick wall has more personality than Hall lol , but i do like his voice
But we have Suggs and Chas both energetic , and both full of charisma ,and fun
we also have Thommo who is worth watching the whole the gig himself ,
and we have Chrissy boys 'showtime' ,
IMO if Madness were still touring with only there first two albums , one step beyond and Absolutely ,What are imo just as good as The Specials two if not better ;D i imagine most if not all the diviners once a year fans would be happy ,and be shouting 'there the best' but what a 'boring ' band to be in and be a fulltime fan of imo

Our MADNESS have been for yrs and yrs throwing a new song in somwhere even at the first Madstock which was a diviner set , but they finished with The Harder They Come , that was awesome

If you compare being a Specials fan to beIng a fan of the best , it would be like going every gig and hearing Baggy Trousers etc etc everytime


We dont just live in the past , Madness are a real band that make music


Anyway go talk all your Special needs on a Specials forum

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